Forums - SSF2: "Legality" of the Magic Throw? Show all 17 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- SSF2: "Legality" of the Magic Throw? (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=39593) Posted by Apprentice on 09:13:2001 05:12 AM: SSF2: "Legality" of the Magic Throw? Hypothetically speaking, would Zangief's Magic Throw glitch be permitted in a tournament setting? Would you tolerate it in casual play? I mean, some glitches like Valle CCs and kara-cancels are permitted in tourneys... I guess one could argue that since it was removed from subsequent revisions of SSF2, it's "illegal". On the other hand, the magic throw is somewhat escapable provided that you put yourself in the air when Zangief comes out of blockstun. And for a *really* useless hypothetical argument: how would an ST Zangief fare against Gouki if Z was given the Magic Throw? -Paul PS: For those few who don't know, just perform a reversal 360+MK. Posted by Slayer213KIL on 09:13:2001 08:00 AM: I've never heard of Zangief having a "Magic Throw." The "Magic Throw" was something particular to Guile in SF2:WW. It was a Glitch envolving the use of two buttons when the sonic boom was attempted. If successful then Guile would go through the animation of throwing, even if the opponent was on the other side of the screen, and then opponet would fall and take damage. Hence the term "Magic." Posted by State of Nature on 09:13:2001 08:18 AM: Yeah, Zangief had a magic throw. It was kinda like guile's in that you could SPD somebody anywhere on the ground on the screen when you came out of block stun. So you could be in one corner, block a fireball thrown from the other side of the screen, and then if you did a reversal SPD, you would magically grab the opponent and SPD them. Strange. As for how that would work on ST Gouki... if you did it on an air fireball he would not be affected unless he were on the ground, so I would guess not so much. It would help him a lot with dealing with ground fbs though. Posted by Apoc on 09:13:2001 09:59 AM: Re: SSF2: "Legality" of the Magic Throw? quote: Originally posted by Apprentice Hypothetically speaking, would Zangief's Magic Throw glitch be permitted in a tournament setting? Would you tolerate it in casual play? I mean, some glitches like Valle CCs and kara-cancels are permitted in tourneys... I guess one could argue that since it was removed from subsequent revisions of SSF2, it's "illegal". On the other hand, the magic throw is somewhat escapable provided that you put yourself in the air when Zangief comes out of blockstun. And for a *really* useless hypothetical argument: how would an ST Zangief fare against Gouki if Z was given the Magic Throw? -Paul PS: For those few who don't know, just perform a reversal 360+MK. First, Valle ccs and Kara Cancels are not glitches so they don't fall into the same category. Secondly, only the first shipments of SSF2 have the glitch, it was fixed in a revision as you noted. And no, it would not be allowed in tournaments. Escaping it by jumping only worked using projectiles and fast pokes like Vega's jab. Common sense shows it makes the game stupid. It is what I call "the first Alpha Counter" though And lastly, there are no tournaments for SSF2. HF and ST are superior. Opinions aside, that's the consensus of top SF players at the time. SSF2 was a big disappointment. But for the overall masses that didn't know a thing about tourney sf and played consoles generally, it was a good game. Chronologically it is the only sf that was a clear step back in terms of balance, engine and fun. There was no speed setting in the arcade...ugh, I remember the feeling of that time...along with the stupid Van Damme movie? Those two things almost killed sf:/ Apoc. Posted by mad on 09:13:2001 10:02 AM: Re: Re: SSF2: "Legality" of the Magic Throw? quote: Originally posted by Apoc First, Valle ccs and Kara Cancels are not glitches so they don't fall into the same category. Secondly, only the first shipments of SSF2 have the glitch, it was fixed in a revision as you noted. And no, it would not be allowed in tournaments. Escaping it by jumping only worked using projectiles and fast pokes like Vega's jab. Common sense shows it makes the game stupid. It is what I call "the first Alpha Counter" though And lastly, there are no tournaments for SSF2. HF and ST are superior. Opinions aside, that's the consensus of top SF players at the time. SSF2 was a big disappointment. But for the overall masses that didn't know a thing about tourney sf and played consoles generally, it was a good game. Chronologically it is the only sf that was a clear step back in terms of balance, engine and fun. There was no speed setting in the arcade...ugh, I remember the feeling of that time...along with the stupid Van Damme movie? Those two things almost killed sf:/ Apoc. capcom fixed the magic throw in ST!btw,ssf2 is the worst in sf2 game series....even sf2 ww better than it!!!!!! Posted by Apprentice on 09:13:2001 05:06 PM: Re: Re: SSF2: "Legality" of the Magic Throw? quote: Originally posted by Apoc First, Valle ccs and Kara Cancels are not glitches so they don't fall into the same category. Secondly, only the first shipments of SSF2 have the glitch, it was fixed in a revision as you noted. Out of curiosity, how do you classify Valle CCs and Karas? I called them glitches because Capcom most likely didn't intend for them to be there, much like combos in WW. Don't get me wrong, of course; I'm fully in favor of using Valle CCs and Karas. I'm just curious about their sub-classification as gameplay elements. quote: And no, it would not be allowed in tournaments. Escaping it by jumping only worked using projectiles and fast pokes like Vega's jab. Common sense shows it makes the game stupid. It is what I call "the first Alpha Counter" though And lastly, there are no tournaments for SSF2. HF and ST are superior. Opinions aside, that's the consensus of top SF players at the time. Understood... though the concept of a top-tier turtle Zangief is mighty interesting, n'est-ce pas? Personally, I'm in the ST>HF camp. Part of it has something to do with being in love with Bison's j.MPx3. quote: SSF2 was a big disappointment. But for the overall masses that didn't know a thing about tourney sf and played consoles generally, it was a good game. Chronologically it is the only sf that was a clear step back in terms of balance, engine and fun. There was no speed setting in the arcade...ugh, I remember the feeling of that time...along with the stupid Van Damme movie? Those two things almost killed sf:/ Heh. The CvS1 machine at my local arcade is set to "Normal" speed, which feels nominally faster than WW/SSF2. I've been bitching to the operators about having it turned up, but they don't seem to care. At least the controls work fine on both sides. As for the movie, I actually paid money to see that travesty! Though old, here's a funny link devoted to that "SONOFABEESH" movie: http://www.whatever-dude.com/posts/134.shtml And thanks, Apoc. It's nice to have one of the "big guys" answering one of my posts. -Paul Posted by hyt on 09:13:2001 05:15 PM: Kara cancels and Valle CCs are consequences of properties in the game's engine, just like Guard Breaks and AHVB in MvC2. Glitches are things that aren't supposed to happen under the rules of the game's engine. Posted by Jamerson on 09:13:2001 08:11 PM: Pardon my ignorance, but what are these Valle CC's you guys keep mentioning??? Posted by hyt on 09:13:2001 08:56 PM: do a search on the boards Valle Custom Combo Posted by Spider-Dan on 09:14:2001 12:06 AM: As has been stated, Valle CC and kara cancel are not glitches. Valle CC simply takes advantage of the fact that it takes 4? frames to start blocking in A2, but a CC attack can come out in less than 4; therefore, if you weren't already blocking (specifically, blocking low) then you can't block a CC that starts with a sweep. Kara cancel takes advantage of two things: a) you can cancel the beginning frames of any normal ground attack into a throw (or into a taunt, if you want)... this is intentional b) some normals move your character forward slightly... again, intentional If you combine both properties, you end up with your character moving forward slightly then doing a throw, which results in what looks like more range. Posted by Ryo Hazuki on 09:14:2001 12:25 AM: apprentice!!!!!! i read that SF:the movie article i could NOT stop laughing people, if you've never read it, go NOW it's the funniest shit you'll ever read Posted by mad on 09:14:2001 02:20 AM: ssf2 is a joke!!!!btw,do u know which is slower?sf2ww or ssf2? Posted by Apoc on 09:14:2001 09:02 AM: Re: Re: Re: SSF2: "Legality" of the Magic Throw? quote: Originally posted by Apprentice Out of curiosity, how do you classify Valle CCs and Karas? I called them glitches because Capcom most likely didn't intend for them to be there, much like combos in WW. Don't get me wrong, of course; I'm fully in favor of using Valle CCs and Karas. I'm just curious about their sub-classification as gameplay elements. Understood... though the concept of a top-tier turtle Zangief is mighty interesting, n'est-ce pas? Personally, I'm in the ST>HF camp. Part of it has something to do with being in love with Bison's j.MPx3. Heh. The CvS1 machine at my local arcade is set to "Normal" speed, which feels nominally faster than WW/SSF2. I've been bitching to the operators about having it turned up, but they don't seem to care. At least the controls work fine on both sides. As for the movie, I actually paid money to see that travesty! Though old, here's a funny link devoted to that "SONOFABEESH" movie: http://www.whatever-dude.com/posts/134.shtml And thanks, Apoc. It's nice to have one of the "big guys" answering one of my posts. -Paul heheh I'm a big guy=) hehe j/k Valle CC and Kara throws are a byproduct of the programmed engine. Not necessarily intended to be used as they are but certainly programmed to be that way. Kara throws are that way to leave a margin of error when trying to throw just as if trying to do a fireball and you hit it too early, the frc will start to come out, then the negative edge will activate a fireball cancelling the normals animation. I may be wrong on this but I'm pretty sure that's how they came into being. Same with the time freeze and blockdelay working together to create the situation for a Valle cc. And really what were talking about here is not glitches, but game breaking glitches. The only way to escape Zangief's glitch throw is to jump...the zangief player knows this. So the glitch automatically allows him to counter just about anything with a kick 360 and what he can't counter he'll nail you in the air for. He can make you jump without doing anything. This dumbs matches down so much it's gamebreaking. Still though, wasn't that a damn fun glitch!? Apoc. Posted by akiman on 09:14:2001 09:31 AM: do u think ssf2 is better than sf2? Posted by Apprentice on 09:14:2001 03:56 PM: Re: Re: Re: Re: SSF2: "Legality" of the Magic Throw? quote: Originally posted by Apoc heheh I'm a big guy=) hehe j/k Valle CC and Kara throws are a byproduct of the programmed engine. Not necessarily intended to be used as they are but certainly programmed to be that way. What's interesting about the karas, though, is that it would've made a lot more sense to have only Jabs or Shorts cancel into the throw animation. Taking Gouki as an example, he uses his toward+Strong overhead. Unless I'm mistaken, that move cannot be normally cancelled into anything but a Shun Goku Satsu (or maybe the other supers as well). Weird stuff. -Paul, thinking about a kara-Gigas Breaker... Posted by V-Gouki on 09:14:2001 04:22 PM: Apoc : can you explain why SSF2 was a big disappointment ? Who are the best chars in the game and why ? I don't know the game well as when it came out I wasn't playing SF "seriously". I loved the game because of the new graphics, the new chars, the music... And anybody can describe me the Valle CC ? I never saw it anywhere. Posted by nin on 09:15:2001 08:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by V-Gouki Apoc : can you explain why SSF2 was a big disappointment ? Who are the best chars in the game and why ? I don't know the game well as when it came out I wasn't playing SF "seriously". I loved the game because of the new graphics, the new chars, the music... And anybody can describe me the Valle CC ? I never saw it anywhere. reason:ssf2 is slow as hell.....and why released ssf2 when they then release st??? best char?ryu...... All times are GMT. The time now is 11:26 PM. Show all 17 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.